MagnusVonMagnum
Apr 16, 11:21 AM
God forbid you carry around an inch long adapter in your laptop bag. Is that too much for you?
You keep talking about a non-existent adapter that costs $10 and comparing mini-display port adapters that merely convert signal paths isn't even in the same realm as converting to an entirely different interface. In other words your 'adapter' prices are 100% BS and you know it.
LOL, are you kidding me bro? Do you think USB 3 peaks out at it's max 5 Gbps? YOU are the one dreaming if you believe that. Here's some more evidence for your FUD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCz_c_rDAXw
USB 3 would completely choke in that situation let alone in a simply hard drive speed comparison. Give me a break. Here's another example for you to look at for some REAL WORLD USB 3 speeds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrtwtSjzjZI
Don't tase me bro! :eek:
Seriously, you going to compare a demonstration with a professional mass storage array that isn't available to the public yet and which I said at the bottom of my last post is a perfect use for TB (i.e. with professional editing software) with the Lacie consumer grade 5200 RPM SLOW USB3 drive? Dude, you have to compare apples to apples. You're comparing a race car to a Chevette.... That neither proves nor disproves anything about the full capability of USB3. The ad on that box is marketing BS about the "interface" not the drive they're selling (which is a slow 5200 RPM SATA drive which all top out between 40-60MB/sec PERIOD, regardless whether they use SATA, USB3, Firewire 800 or Thunderbolt). Show me a 7200 RPM (or better yet a 10,000+ SCSI rated) drive connected to USB3 AND TB (or even FW800) and then compare their actual speeds. OR find an array that goes fast like the one Intel was using that also has USB3 on it and compare their actual speeds 1 to 1. Showing me Steak Diane on one plate and a hot dog on the other doesn't prove the cook who made the hot dog doesn't know how to cook. It simply proves he was given a hot dog to cook.
In reality with USB 3 you get about 480 Megabits as opposed to the promised 5 Gpbs meaning Thunderbolt will be even faster than two times.
In reality, you need an actual hard drive test that makes sense not comparing a Porsche to a lawn tractor.... :rolleyes:
So you are just ASSUMING that they will cost $250 more than USB 3 drives.
No more than you assuming you're going to get a $10 USB3 adapter. At least my assumption is based on Firewire statistics and early adoption rates. Yours is based on dreaming.
LOL, words can't describe how wrong you are. You think HDD speeds cap out at 480 Mbps? Maybe in your 'practical world' where you enjoy using inferior
I think the 5200 RPM 2.5" drive that came with my MBP capped out around 50MB/sec using a SATA II interface (or 450mbps). Does that prove my SATA chip set SUCKS? NO, IT DOES NOT. When I replaced it with a 7200 RPM Hitachi, it now caps out around 110MB/sec (or 880mbps, well above FW800's theoretical cap even). Even my PPC G4 gets 105MB/sec caps with its 1.5TB 7200 RPM Seagate Barracuda drives (and SATA does eat CPU as well; if I try to run two of them at the same time I still get a total of around 100MB/sec with the CPU pegged at 95-100%. The older PCI bus is also in the way. Thus it's not the SATA interface there that's the problem either, but you might think so if you make assumptions based only on one test number and no idea what's in the computer being used or any statistics about the CPU or Bus while its being used. Your YouTube videos comparisons are absurd in that regard. Cheap mass storage devices (like the Lacie) aren't made for performance. Show me TB making that same drive do over 100MB/sec. It won't happen.
Your 'practical world' when you were just talking about how no one will pay a premium for USB 3.
I never said any such thing. I said they won't pay a premium for Thunderbolt for every-day use. If you're just going to lie and change what I said, I won't bother replying anymore.
USB 3 won't be a premium over anything. It's going to be dirt cheap and a simple performance upgrade for everyone. It already is cheap for new computers and a pretty cheap add-on for existing ones; you cannot add TB to existing computers so there's another problem it has to contend with, especially trying to get a large user base in any reasonable length of time. The longer it takes to get a large installed user base, the longer the prices will stay high on any TB products. It's plainly obvious that TB is going to be a high-end niche product just like FW800, at least for the forseeable future. While Intel's demo is totally cool, it doesn't remotely represent the AVERAGE PC user in any shape or form. Most people aren't editing 4 simultaneous streams of 1080p video on a mega-buck professional high-speed drive array.
I have NO problem with TB technology or its usefulness in certain applications. I do contend that most people aren't going to give a crap about it one way or the other since their computers will not have it or need it for their everyday uses. More to the point, most computers (save maybe those from Apple) will have ALSO have USB3, allowing the user to make the best possible choices for their needs. USB3 will not fail or go away simply because it is a cheap upgrade to USB2 that is fully backwards compatible. Computers will have it just for that reason alone even if the user doesn't make good use of it.
IF TB ever achieves mass acceptance, it will be years into the future. It takes time to build a user base on a totally new technology. USB3 is a simple dump and replace and still works with everything USB2. TB works with NOTHING that already exists (save a few Mini-display port monitors and that's only because it carries Mini-display port video signals). The fact that Intel plans to do USB3 alongside TB on their next chipset shows even they understand that TB is going to be high-end/niche product for some time to come.
I have said in the past that IF Intel had used the USB3 style connector and essentially had USB compatibility + MORE bandwidth THEN they might start appearing on everything. But they chose instead to use a connector that is hardly on anything (but newer Macs) and that isn't much different than starting over with a totally new connector and no compatibility with anything (outside breakout boxes that are essentially PCI cards in a box). When it comes down to it, TB is basically the entire PCIe bus on a single external connector.
You keep talking about a non-existent adapter that costs $10 and comparing mini-display port adapters that merely convert signal paths isn't even in the same realm as converting to an entirely different interface. In other words your 'adapter' prices are 100% BS and you know it.
LOL, are you kidding me bro? Do you think USB 3 peaks out at it's max 5 Gbps? YOU are the one dreaming if you believe that. Here's some more evidence for your FUD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCz_c_rDAXw
USB 3 would completely choke in that situation let alone in a simply hard drive speed comparison. Give me a break. Here's another example for you to look at for some REAL WORLD USB 3 speeds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrtwtSjzjZI
Don't tase me bro! :eek:
Seriously, you going to compare a demonstration with a professional mass storage array that isn't available to the public yet and which I said at the bottom of my last post is a perfect use for TB (i.e. with professional editing software) with the Lacie consumer grade 5200 RPM SLOW USB3 drive? Dude, you have to compare apples to apples. You're comparing a race car to a Chevette.... That neither proves nor disproves anything about the full capability of USB3. The ad on that box is marketing BS about the "interface" not the drive they're selling (which is a slow 5200 RPM SATA drive which all top out between 40-60MB/sec PERIOD, regardless whether they use SATA, USB3, Firewire 800 or Thunderbolt). Show me a 7200 RPM (or better yet a 10,000+ SCSI rated) drive connected to USB3 AND TB (or even FW800) and then compare their actual speeds. OR find an array that goes fast like the one Intel was using that also has USB3 on it and compare their actual speeds 1 to 1. Showing me Steak Diane on one plate and a hot dog on the other doesn't prove the cook who made the hot dog doesn't know how to cook. It simply proves he was given a hot dog to cook.
In reality with USB 3 you get about 480 Megabits as opposed to the promised 5 Gpbs meaning Thunderbolt will be even faster than two times.
In reality, you need an actual hard drive test that makes sense not comparing a Porsche to a lawn tractor.... :rolleyes:
So you are just ASSUMING that they will cost $250 more than USB 3 drives.
No more than you assuming you're going to get a $10 USB3 adapter. At least my assumption is based on Firewire statistics and early adoption rates. Yours is based on dreaming.
LOL, words can't describe how wrong you are. You think HDD speeds cap out at 480 Mbps? Maybe in your 'practical world' where you enjoy using inferior
I think the 5200 RPM 2.5" drive that came with my MBP capped out around 50MB/sec using a SATA II interface (or 450mbps). Does that prove my SATA chip set SUCKS? NO, IT DOES NOT. When I replaced it with a 7200 RPM Hitachi, it now caps out around 110MB/sec (or 880mbps, well above FW800's theoretical cap even). Even my PPC G4 gets 105MB/sec caps with its 1.5TB 7200 RPM Seagate Barracuda drives (and SATA does eat CPU as well; if I try to run two of them at the same time I still get a total of around 100MB/sec with the CPU pegged at 95-100%. The older PCI bus is also in the way. Thus it's not the SATA interface there that's the problem either, but you might think so if you make assumptions based only on one test number and no idea what's in the computer being used or any statistics about the CPU or Bus while its being used. Your YouTube videos comparisons are absurd in that regard. Cheap mass storage devices (like the Lacie) aren't made for performance. Show me TB making that same drive do over 100MB/sec. It won't happen.
Your 'practical world' when you were just talking about how no one will pay a premium for USB 3.
I never said any such thing. I said they won't pay a premium for Thunderbolt for every-day use. If you're just going to lie and change what I said, I won't bother replying anymore.
USB 3 won't be a premium over anything. It's going to be dirt cheap and a simple performance upgrade for everyone. It already is cheap for new computers and a pretty cheap add-on for existing ones; you cannot add TB to existing computers so there's another problem it has to contend with, especially trying to get a large user base in any reasonable length of time. The longer it takes to get a large installed user base, the longer the prices will stay high on any TB products. It's plainly obvious that TB is going to be a high-end niche product just like FW800, at least for the forseeable future. While Intel's demo is totally cool, it doesn't remotely represent the AVERAGE PC user in any shape or form. Most people aren't editing 4 simultaneous streams of 1080p video on a mega-buck professional high-speed drive array.
I have NO problem with TB technology or its usefulness in certain applications. I do contend that most people aren't going to give a crap about it one way or the other since their computers will not have it or need it for their everyday uses. More to the point, most computers (save maybe those from Apple) will have ALSO have USB3, allowing the user to make the best possible choices for their needs. USB3 will not fail or go away simply because it is a cheap upgrade to USB2 that is fully backwards compatible. Computers will have it just for that reason alone even if the user doesn't make good use of it.
IF TB ever achieves mass acceptance, it will be years into the future. It takes time to build a user base on a totally new technology. USB3 is a simple dump and replace and still works with everything USB2. TB works with NOTHING that already exists (save a few Mini-display port monitors and that's only because it carries Mini-display port video signals). The fact that Intel plans to do USB3 alongside TB on their next chipset shows even they understand that TB is going to be high-end/niche product for some time to come.
I have said in the past that IF Intel had used the USB3 style connector and essentially had USB compatibility + MORE bandwidth THEN they might start appearing on everything. But they chose instead to use a connector that is hardly on anything (but newer Macs) and that isn't much different than starting over with a totally new connector and no compatibility with anything (outside breakout boxes that are essentially PCI cards in a box). When it comes down to it, TB is basically the entire PCIe bus on a single external connector.
johndoejohndoes
Mar 30, 12:35 PM
What about Appp Store? Huh?
Both parties look like idiots for real.
Stop arguing over a generic term.
Both parties look like idiots for real.
Stop arguing over a generic term.
Bibulous
Sep 19, 04:52 PM
Don't forget that Apple servers will be the weakest link here. Amazon servers were overcrowded the first days, leading to downloads of 8+ hours (and you can only rent them for 24 hours (or buy them, of course))
They will have to build/purchase a data center or two
They did last February - http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2006/02/27/story5.html
http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/02/20060227183355.shtml
Wonder if they are using it for iTunes?
They will have to build/purchase a data center or two
They did last February - http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2006/02/27/story5.html
http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/02/20060227183355.shtml
Wonder if they are using it for iTunes?
Zimmy
Sep 14, 06:34 AM
i agree i would snap it up the day it comes out..
on a side note: entry level mac mini is .01p cheaper :D
ZIm
on a side note: entry level mac mini is .01p cheaper :D
ZIm
aurichie
Apr 19, 07:44 AM
Google actually doesn't, being an industry newcomer and all (they only appeared at the end of the 90s in the industry). That is one of their Achilles' heels.
They have plenty of patents. It wasn't until the 90s that the patent madness really started with software. Google is also leading the bidding for a large portfolio of mobile patents to protect them against Apple and Microsoft.
They have plenty of patents. It wasn't until the 90s that the patent madness really started with software. Google is also leading the bidding for a large portfolio of mobile patents to protect them against Apple and Microsoft.
Minimoose 360
Apr 25, 02:36 PM
Bye bye built in Superdrive. I'll look back fondly at the five times I used you in the past three years.
You know, I was against the whole "get rid of the optical drive" bandwagon back in '09 when I got my MBP....but in the couple years I've had mine, I've used the thing ONCE.
And if anyone asks, it was for printer drivers (which I probably could have gotten online but I had the disc readily accessible.)
I'm going to soon get rid of mine and throw in a SSD!
You know, I was against the whole "get rid of the optical drive" bandwagon back in '09 when I got my MBP....but in the couple years I've had mine, I've used the thing ONCE.
And if anyone asks, it was for printer drivers (which I probably could have gotten online but I had the disc readily accessible.)
I'm going to soon get rid of mine and throw in a SSD!
BenRoethig
Aug 28, 12:29 PM
Yeah, we all knew this was coming. It will be interesting to see how quickly Apple responds to its competition and follows suit. Hopefully very soon, I'm eager to see what exactly Apple does, i.e. only updates the MBPs, updates the whole MacBook line, updates the Mini as well... :cool:
Oh, and how about some Conroe iMacs? ;) :D
I think there's a better chance of Merom iMacs. We're talking about a system in which they underclock a mobility Radeon x1600 to make it quieter. Conroe makes sense in a regular desktop, but I don�t see it happening with the iMac.
Oh, and how about some Conroe iMacs? ;) :D
I think there's a better chance of Merom iMacs. We're talking about a system in which they underclock a mobility Radeon x1600 to make it quieter. Conroe makes sense in a regular desktop, but I don�t see it happening with the iMac.
SuperCachetes
Apr 10, 11:03 AM
Government-mandated vacation??? Why, those socialists! The damn government can keep its filthy hands outta my- hey, wait a minute... Did you say 5 weeks? :p
JMP
Apr 30, 07:06 PM
I love internet tough guys.
That makes two of us.
That makes two of us.
EagerDragon
Sep 14, 07:52 PM
If you'd followed the dSLR world at all over the past two years, you wouldn't ask this question. :) Canon and Nikon are doing well; most everyone else is dropping like flies. Sony is trying to pick up the pieces that were Konica-Minolta's dSLR business, but at best they're going to be a distant third behind the Big Two. Pentax and Olympus are holding on as far as I know, but they are not doing well.
It would be a very poor move for Apple, and I have no doubt they realize this. You might think Apple has a rabid fan base to draw on - go read any "Nikon vs. Canon" thread on any photo discussion board sometime to see REAL rabidity. :D
I can see why they are not doing that well...... A film SLR is a heck of a lot cheaper and they were harder to make. They are charging way too much. Back in the old times we all had film SLR's for the quality, ability to change lens (not that different from todays lenses), etc. Unless you are a pro the prices are way out of most people budget. You spend 700 to 4000 for a body and every lens is 500. Crazy.
It would be a very poor move for Apple, and I have no doubt they realize this. You might think Apple has a rabid fan base to draw on - go read any "Nikon vs. Canon" thread on any photo discussion board sometime to see REAL rabidity. :D
I can see why they are not doing that well...... A film SLR is a heck of a lot cheaper and they were harder to make. They are charging way too much. Back in the old times we all had film SLR's for the quality, ability to change lens (not that different from todays lenses), etc. Unless you are a pro the prices are way out of most people budget. You spend 700 to 4000 for a body and every lens is 500. Crazy.
theelysium
Mar 30, 11:54 AM
I'll say it again "App Store" is a generic term, I think everyone should be able to use it.. I hope Apple doesn't win this one.. If someone used "Mac App Store", completely understandable..
It's not generic they coined it. It's theres.
It's not generic they coined it. It's theres.
EspressoLove
Apr 22, 07:08 PM
This may have been asked and answered before, but is the common belief that USB and Firewire will be completely gone soon? For example, my Macbook Air has room for only two ports - a mini-display drive, and a USB drive. Is the idea that the Thunderbolt drive will replace the USB, and that purchasers of the new Air will use an adapter of some sort for "old" USB peripherals moving forward?
If Apple has this expectation, they had better at least sell an appropriate adapter/hub. I've long thought a thin, form-matching hub that connects to all of the ports on one side of an Apple portable would be a great idea. If Apple can make a 2- or even 3-port USB hub off of the Thunderbolt port (especially if a Mini Display-Port is also available) for ~$50, that would be golden for this type of MBA plan.
You both think into it too much:
- FireWire was gone from Apple's "future of notebooks" since the beginning of time (2008:rolleyes:)
- Thunderbolt is not replacing USBs, it's a supplement to DisplayPort (and can connect to both display and peripherals simultaneously)
If Apple has this expectation, they had better at least sell an appropriate adapter/hub. I've long thought a thin, form-matching hub that connects to all of the ports on one side of an Apple portable would be a great idea. If Apple can make a 2- or even 3-port USB hub off of the Thunderbolt port (especially if a Mini Display-Port is also available) for ~$50, that would be golden for this type of MBA plan.
You both think into it too much:
- FireWire was gone from Apple's "future of notebooks" since the beginning of time (2008:rolleyes:)
- Thunderbolt is not replacing USBs, it's a supplement to DisplayPort (and can connect to both display and peripherals simultaneously)
cube
Mar 30, 12:08 PM
BurgStore
And Burg does not mean Burger.
And Burg does not mean Burger.
cmaier
Nov 13, 10:22 PM
Amen! You are on the dot! Everyone (including developers) complain about their app not getting approved for one reason or another, and yet it's always because they breached the Developers Guide for the App Store. Just ******** get a printer and print the damn pdf out. Then, step two, READ it. Then, before you go and submit the app, use it yourself and see if it follows the guidelines.
It's like high school, when the teacher gives you a RUBRIC to FOLLOW, when you FAIL, it's because you didn't follow it. So shut up, or nut up. And build a better app. Hopefully one that doesn't say "that's what she says". :mad:
Most of the complaints, including this one, are about when Apple rejects an app for something that is NOT in the developer's guide.
It's like high school, when the teacher gives you a RUBRIC to FOLLOW, when you FAIL, it's because you didn't follow it. So shut up, or nut up. And build a better app. Hopefully one that doesn't say "that's what she says". :mad:
Most of the complaints, including this one, are about when Apple rejects an app for something that is NOT in the developer's guide.
cube
Apr 23, 09:19 AM
The 320M is CUDA-capable. Intel is still evaluating OpenCL.
goodhood
Apr 4, 12:19 PM
If this "mall cop" also happens to be an off-duty police officer moonlighting at a second job, I'm not surprised at the outcome. Police officers are rightfully taught to shoot to kill. A wounded criminal can still kill an officer wheras a dead one cannot. Unfortunate outcome, but the simple truth is don't commit armed robbery.
firewood
Mar 23, 04:50 PM
The way to solve this is to put a sobriety test in the app that has to be passed before the user can view any checkpoints. That way sober drivers won't have to take a route that wastes their valuable time. And sufficiently impaired drunk should be locked out of the app.
The app's sobriety test "login" can check a person's balance using the accelerometer and gyro, measure their reflex time, and maybe run a short N-back memory and attention span test that should discourage anyone who can't pass these tests from driving in the first place, maybe even display the length of the latest prison sentences doled out to people who drove impaired in their county.
The app's sobriety test "login" can check a person's balance using the accelerometer and gyro, measure their reflex time, and maybe run a short N-back memory and attention span test that should discourage anyone who can't pass these tests from driving in the first place, maybe even display the length of the latest prison sentences doled out to people who drove impaired in their county.
ValSalva
Apr 30, 02:41 PM
I seen it as more of a mid model refresh.
TECHNICALLY been the same since 2008.
The fall 2009 refresh was a big redesign. The displays were all different sizes, 21.5 and 27" and went edge to edge. This was the first time since moving to Intel that the iMacs had desktop processors instead of the previous mobile chips. It was not a trivial redesign which is why it's unlikely there will be much different about this year's updates other than ports, processors, and storage upgrades.
TECHNICALLY been the same since 2008.
The fall 2009 refresh was a big redesign. The displays were all different sizes, 21.5 and 27" and went edge to edge. This was the first time since moving to Intel that the iMacs had desktop processors instead of the previous mobile chips. It was not a trivial redesign which is why it's unlikely there will be much different about this year's updates other than ports, processors, and storage upgrades.
Silentwave
Jul 16, 02:01 AM
There is no way apple with go with Merom for the imac. One huge factor you are all ignoring, is price. Merom cost alot more than conroe for the same speed. Apple will try to lower cost, and that means going with Conroe.
It's a matter of heat. We can't be sure that they'll go Conroe if the actual heat put off by the chip (ignoring TDP quotes on either side) is much more than a G5.
I hope they use Conroe though- that would be fantastic.
But I honestly can't say that I think it will go conroe YET. It would be more likely when they have to redesign the Logic Board next year because Merom's 800MT/S FSB version will have a new socket and need the new Santa Rosa chipset. They'll be just as well off if they do a new LB at that point for Conroe.
It's a matter of heat. We can't be sure that they'll go Conroe if the actual heat put off by the chip (ignoring TDP quotes on either side) is much more than a G5.
I hope they use Conroe though- that would be fantastic.
But I honestly can't say that I think it will go conroe YET. It would be more likely when they have to redesign the Logic Board next year because Merom's 800MT/S FSB version will have a new socket and need the new Santa Rosa chipset. They'll be just as well off if they do a new LB at that point for Conroe.
dondark
Sep 15, 07:22 PM
$599...I would expect at least 8GB, likely 16GB or a HDD (ala Nokia) to make that worth that price point for me ($1000 AUD roughly). Also video playback.
Did you see any PDA phone couldnt play video? $599 actually is a very low price. Many high-end PDA phones are selling close to $1000 even without a hard drive.
BTW, $1000 aud is $755 USD
Did you see any PDA phone couldnt play video? $599 actually is a very low price. Many high-end PDA phones are selling close to $1000 even without a hard drive.
BTW, $1000 aud is $755 USD
dejo
Nov 13, 02:52 PM
Just to be clear, if RA had made an application for a Macbook that displayed these images, that's ok. Because they made the application for an iPhone instead, it's not ok.
Does that make sense to anyone?
In a sense, yes. The rules for iPhone development are different than for Mac OS X. I may not always agree with it but there you have it. :)
Does that make sense to anyone?
In a sense, yes. The rules for iPhone development are different than for Mac OS X. I may not always agree with it but there you have it. :)
linux2mac
May 3, 11:19 AM
At this price point and with these features - they may push even more customers away from the mac pro and towards the iMac. Even for some pretty heavy lifting, it's going to be a beast of a machine.
I can say from experience that the i7 SB is a wonderful CPU. It competes with or beats the top end 6 core processors in apps that are not heavily multi-threaded.
It's pretty nice that those dell 30 inchers are almost exactly the same size as the iMac.
Absolutely. If going Mac Pro route you still need 3 ACD's. Going iMac route you just need two ACD's. I still doubt I will need the power of i7 for my PHP/MySQL coding but I will take it. :)
I can say from experience that the i7 SB is a wonderful CPU. It competes with or beats the top end 6 core processors in apps that are not heavily multi-threaded.
It's pretty nice that those dell 30 inchers are almost exactly the same size as the iMac.
Absolutely. If going Mac Pro route you still need 3 ACD's. Going iMac route you just need two ACD's. I still doubt I will need the power of i7 for my PHP/MySQL coding but I will take it. :)
LarryC
Mar 22, 05:31 PM
Finally some Mac rumors.. :D
Amen. It really is way over due :D I don't think I could have waited much longer.
Amen. It really is way over due :D I don't think I could have waited much longer.
JAT
Mar 23, 04:48 PM
MADD needs to come out with an application that makes it easier for citizens to notify the cops of reckless and drunk drivers instead of having congress pull these apps!!!
Which people can use while....driving?
Which people can use while....driving?